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The Sad Butchering of LOTR by Amazon catchup  discussions

2020/12/21 18:10, Facelift:   
I did a deep-dive research into who's behind the upcoming LOTR Series by Amazon. Considering, how badly their games went and how they were banning people on ALPHA TESTING FORUMS in New World because people would provide constructive criticism which got interpreted as 'toxic' simply because it dared to present negative, potentially catastrophic aspects of the game.

Now with the same mindset, Amazon seems to be heading into the LOTR Series and I fear the worst. In this SJW-driven production, where main focus is not quality story-telling or film-making, but pushing propaganda, politics and 'diversity' down your throat, I feel like this is as close as it gets to absolutely spitting on the face of J R R Tolkien and his life's work.

Here's a video that sums up some if not most of the problems that we will have to face with in the 'Hollywood 2020' film making.

[submitted link]

2020/12/22 00:25, Zintilden:   
hmmf....I watched this whole video....sad news. I noticed I didn't care for GOT as much the more I started reading into all the stuff online/watching videos about it though, so I have not watched one video on this new in the making Amazon show yet, and this will be the last one I think now too. Just so I don't despise it prior to its release even hehe. 8)

BTW am I the only one that has read all of the books (so many times I stopped counting)that thought Sam was just super polite?! I never thought twice about the way be speaks or behaves since. (Of course, besides that once in a great while when watching the movies, I wish I could be 1% as nice as him maybe). Interesting how things are perceived and read compared to others. The movie 'Sam' only reinforced that thought in my head too. What a damn shame.

2020/12/22 02:07, Marok:   
You have too much time on your hands, my dude.

2020/12/22 08:13, Dearth:   
Caring about your favorite author and the portrayal of his legacy is a waste of time? I'm convinced this project will suffer the same fate of forced diversity as Star Trek Discovery and Westworld season 2.. I have nothing against women's rights but in new Star Trek every lead character is 'powerful female' because it is popular in Hollywood. When in reality it's Hollywood shoving morals down your throat.

And it's not like there hasn't been positive powerful female role models in the 'One flew over the cuckoo's nest' is from 1975 and nurse Ratched was the most scary type of villain ever.. or for a positive female character lead something like.. Audrey Hepburn in Breakfast at Tiffany's or Julie Andrews from Sound of Music. those characters fit and made sense.. but Westworld Season 2 I had to turn off because I could imagine producers' conference room on Powerpoint.. 'ok our quota for female leads is not 50% lets do something about it':D

2020/12/22 10:10, Ain: 
What movie Z?

2020/12/22 10:24, Savu:   
Wish Hollywood would understand that including JJ and lackeys in any project will turn it into shit. That being said, all the other large fantasy series stink as well. It's all soap operas without any interesting stories. Technically one could hope that since Tolkien wrote a lot, Amazon could use that material to tell the stories there, but on the other hand none of the Silmarillion stuff is detailed enough to provide material for a series so you will get a bunch of love triangles, slow-motion acrobatics and fights and characters crying in hallways.

Just a bad time to make a series that could have been good 10 years ago or possibly 10 years in the future.

I don't think they actually perceive things like that, they just work hard to stir up a conflict by making up things that no one in their right mind would even see in the story. Class struggle and orcs's 'human rights' in a fantasy series about a made up medieval society, lol.

2020/12/22 12:34, Andróg:   
Personally I would wait with any judgments until we at least know what the plot plan is going to be and what the first trailers look like. Right now it is too early to form any kind of opinion, really.

Also, in response to Savu I'd point out that the whole thing is set in the Second Age, so it will have nothing to do with Silmarillion (the Tolkien Estate has explicitly forbidden Amazon to use anything from the Silmarillion). They're basically relying on LOTR and its appendices and such. Basically you can be sure that they'll have to make up all the details of the story themselves. There are no detailed Tolkien-scripts to rely on. Well, other than of course the general storyline of the Second Age. So unless they do go absolutely crazy with it, we'll see Sauron, Galadriel, Gil-Galad and likely a whole lot of it in the latter seasons will take place on Numenor.

Concerning the show-runners. I'd at least give them a chance. Keep in mind that Peter Jackson was pretty much a nobody from New Zealand before LOTR films as well. I've seen 'Bad Taste' from his early movies. If I only knew him from 'Bad Taste' and I was told that that guy has been given some Big-Project-X, I'd assume that it's going to be a total catastrophe for sure.

But yes, overall I do not expect this to be anything unforgettably awesome either. More like the last few seasons of the Game of Thrones - excellent compared to most of the stuff out there, but quite mediocre compared to the first ~4 seasons.

By the way, coming back to the topic of Silmarillion. I think Silmarillion actually could be turned into awesome tv-series if done right. There's just about enough detailed story in it for the showrunner to rely on solid existing material and the story itself is epic enough to capture an audience. 3-6 seasons of it, depending on how detailed one wants to get.

2020/12/22 15:25, Savu:   
Judgements shall definetly wait for the completed show, but considering that the production is related to the same gang that screwed up both Star Trek and Star Wars and the general quality of series being churned out I'd say pessimism is certainly warranted.

@Androg I'm pretty sure the Silmarillion book covered stuff from Second Age as well. Anyhow, if they can't even use that material then my expectations of the show just got even lower :D. On the flipside, at least they can't screw up material that actually has cultural value.

2020/12/22 17:02, Andróg:   
Well, from my perspective the previous production of 'this gang' is sort of... some of it is good, some of it is bad, most of it is what it is. So if they can manage to produce these on the level of their previous best stuff (like Star Wars Ep VII and Rogue One), then I wouldn't be that harsh about it. Yes, even then it's not going to be some unforgettable series in the ranks of best-ever, but it won't be terrible either (you know, like Star Wars Episodes I, VIII and IX).

So, basically, if they can capture the 'LOTR feel & atmosphere' and portray Sauron, those mighty Elves and other characters in a way that feels and sounds LOTR-like and can do it on the level of The Force Awakens or Rogue one, then I wouldn't complain. But yes, for those who demand absolute perfection, this series has zero chance to succeed.

Regarding rights: I haven't got into the very details of it. The latter parts of The Silmarillion do address the Second Age as well, but there are tons of references do it in LOTR, The Hobbit and the appendixes of these texts as well. There's tons of stuff, secondary storylines and so on that get mentioned in LOTR that they could develop. But still, not being able to directly rely on Akallabeth will severely limit what stories they can tell in the Second Age.

2020/12/22 17:16, Zintilden:   
I meant watching LOTR movies reinforced my thoughts/impression from the books that he is just super polite, and never would of thought until I saw that video yesterday in this link that he called him master or whatever more in regards to 'class structuring' or 'servant status' etc. I never realized people went that deep to twist this in re Sam, and just always assumed the dude was just super polite, and I couldnt be even 1% of that politeness he displays in books/LOTR movies.

I agree, even being a female, that the female leading roles etc is a bit crazy and overdone, but thats just me. There are a lot of roles in movies and shows that were ruined because of this, to the point its 'too much' all over.

The Silmarillion was hot, by far the sexiest action of all the books, if you can get past the few chapters that make most snore that is. I am such a nerd that I even thought that part was cool. I'm not sure I would like to see someone butcher this book, and I think regardless of who, it would be just that: butchered. I would be so sad if that happened, maybe even a real tear. 8(

2021/08/02 18:55, Andróg:   
[submitted link]
The Amazon series now has a premiere date for season 1: 2 September 2022. And Amazon apparently already has committed to 5 seasons.

I bet all the LOTR-purists will watch it too, no matter how bad they (will inevitably) claim it to be. :)

2021/08/03 09:57, Jinjer:edited 1x   
They even released a first teaser picture where you can see Laurelin and Telperion.

[submitted link]
Edit: ah lol, totally didn't see that the photo was already included in your link.

2021/08/03 14:16, Arcanum:   
@androg- I have been named 'purist' ingame.
LotR was medicore. Leaving out one of the most important characters was cowardice or lack of understanding of the story.
Watched the first part of the hobbit, which was uter bull$..t, showing mostly what happens when someone with commercial interests only, tries to make three cheap films out of a short book. To this day, never watched the other two. As far as i understand they are even worse than the first one (oh, how could that possibly be?).
So to your bet - a solid 'no'.

2021/08/03 22:37, Tapio:   
Anyone not completely corrupted by Morgoth boycotte everything coming out of Hollywood anyway. This latest atrocity will be no exception.

2021/08/04 07:35, Edvard: 
Oh come on, Lotr was not mediocre! :D Can’t fit everything and everyone in, even in a long ass trilogy. But for its time and as a whole, it is still amazing movies. The casting, the dedication in details, music, the lack of bad CGI, etc etc. I personally felt that they captured alot of what I had imagined reading the books.

The hobbit was shit, i agree.

We can only hope that Amazon nails it with this and it goes on to be something prosperous like GOT, although i’m also sceptical to hear JJ Abrams getting onboard etc. The feeling is Amazon is pouring too much money over it so that they will try too hard to control the outcome.

2021/08/04 11:09, Andróg:   
Just for clarity - Hobbit movies were nothing noteworthy indeed. It looked like a money grab indeed. Otherwise they would never have stretched it into a trilogy. But I'd be sceptical about this series being a money grab. Sure, they do expect to make a profit on it, but not by very high margins. Committing 250 million to the first season just does not sound like a project guaranteed to make huge profits.

2021/08/04 13:12, Eldaril: 
The noteworthy part about the Hobbit movies is that there multiple cut-downs that reduced them to a faithful interpretation of the book. Haven't seen any, but I heard some were pretty good.

2021/08/05 10:41, Murghz:   
Lindsay Ellis made some good videos on what went wrong with The Hobbit.

[submitted link]

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