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2017/11/16 07:32, Savu:  edited 1x   
I'm still convinced that it was meant as the right to bear arms in a sense that everyone has a right to own a pair of bear arms. As with any religious text from ages ago, interpreting the meaning is difficult.

On the other hand if you write it as Zepir does 'right to bare arms' then the meaning changes again. It could be that one does not always have to wear gloves, which seems reasonable. Or maybe it means that one may roll up their sleeves when situation requires.

2017/11/16 07:45, Täpp:   
This whole thread should be used for a research paper about how someone with mental retardation (MR)(also possibly bipolar) is able to keep 5+ people arguing with him in a forum when in real life this conversation would lead everyone around the dinner table politely ignoring the village idiot.

This describes Mithfalen's condition pretty well: [submitted link]
* It is defined by an IQ score under 70 * Intellectual disability affects about 2–3% of the general population
* Poor planning or problem solving abilities
* Behavioural and social problems
* Failure to grow intellectually or continued infant-like behaviour
* Failure to adapt or adjust to new situations

2017/11/16 17:48, Zepir:   
lol Savu is funny always making me laugh n shit. Tapp you dont know shit nor do you know anything about me outside of this forum and your lame and cute attempt to diagnose people over the internet is real adorable.

2017/11/17 06:50, Axel: 
Ok, I banned him.

2017/11/17 06:51, Fieldy: 
Thanks! He as a joke started to get stale : (

2017/11/17 08:24, Ortansia:  edited 3x   
@Axel now you will be called liberal anti free speech fascist ;)

@Grimble you were implying that having a gun prevents the one who is about to commit a suicide, to use others means that may hurt/ kill others during his suicide, such as ( car accident, jumping off building) .
so I was just pointing that in cases of suicide-mass murder, having gun do hurt/ kill more people, than using any other means.

In my opinion, the aim of all mass murderers, is to suicide in massacre scene to get glory and fame, either by killing themselves after the massacre, or get themselves killed by cops.

2017/11/17 09:24, Razoor:edited 1x   
It's a good point on the relative VS absolute numbers Grimble, but are you sure that the comparison still doeant hold some merit? Im saying that because I'm not sure that the entire US population should figure into the calculation as they arent gun we are talking about a sub-population causing all these deaths, i.e those who own guns. I guess the comparison is difficult anyway because who do we then count in point well taken :) It was more of an attempt to signal that the numbers are very disturbing, rather than a perfect comparison.

However, on the comparison with automobiles - I believe you do regulate automobiles more heavily than you do guns, right? You need a drivers license to drive after all..

2017/11/17 12:29, Slevin:   
You need a license, you have to register, and you must have insurance.

2017/11/18 09:47, Razoor: 
I thought if you buy from gun fairs or shows or whatever they are called you dont?

2017/11/18 09:59, Slevin:   
I’m talking about cars.

2017/11/18 10:01, Slevin:  edited 2x   
Screw you double post!

2017/11/19 02:08, Grimble:   
Why has noone answered about banning alcohol and tobacco? They kill way more people than guns every year. If you want to save lives why not look to the things that take the most lives? Maybe it is not about saving lives?

2017/11/19 03:32, Täpp:  edited 1x   
Well the obvious difference is that you're killing yourself vs others. You brought up second hand smoking and it's a valid point, but you're not allowed to smoke indoors in public places and around children etc.

I don't think many people feel threatened if their neighbour chain smokes or is an alcoholic but they would if neighbour owns semi automatic shotguns.

That being said I do respect people who defend their gun ownership rights, who are people from other countries to say what you should do.

2017/11/19 06:18, Slevin:   
Alcohol and Tabacco influence a much greater part of the economy than personal guns. They are also slow killers in most instances. It’s all about the money, and those two item are heavily taxed. I live in Canada, and if those two substances were banned it would be a huge relief to the healthcare system.

2017/11/19 08:55, Ortansia:  edited 2x   
@ Grimble the point is not to ban, but to regulate Guns in a way that it doesn't fall in wrong hands, the other thing that Razoor pointed is to improve mental health service, because the combination of poor mental health service, and lack of gun regulations leads in most of cases to mass shooting, which is a real domestic terrorism problem in US.

edit: there should be also a heavy regulation or even ban, on some sorts of weapons, such as heavy machine guns, that can cause mass killing.

2017/11/20 13:03, Razoor: 
I think Täpp makes a good point about harming self VS harming others.

And we already legislate tobacco and alcohol to some extent, as well as added tax which someone mentioned - is there a minimum age for buying a gun?

I wouldn't be against higher taxes on both tobacco and alcohol, personally, but you also don't want to open up a black market that poor people are forced into. I wouldn't mind seeing either of them banned completely because they're mostly harmful to people, but I suspect I'm in a minority here :) But I agree it's all about the money and so this will never happen, no matter how good it might be for people's health.

2017/11/20 13:32, Naga: 
An episode of Superstore comes to mind, where the main character is forced to be in the 'hunting' section and sell guns all day. On comes an onslaught of people who are just telling him about how they just got fired, hate their wife, are so angry, etc etc.

And those people can buy a guy no problem.

It's outright scary how little thought is given to just giving a gun to 'anyone' depending on the laws of that state.

Yes, someone can be just as lethal with a car, as we've seen. But a gun's only purpose is to kill.

2017/11/22 20:25, Andróg:   
2017/11/17 06:50, Axel: New
Ok, I banned him.

World-shattering news. I might actually start reading this thread again.

Anyone give me a short overview of everything and anything important from the last 1000 posts or so?

2017/11/23 04:22, Grimble:   
I think it is sort of ironic that Zepir was the reason this thread even got to this level. I'm not agreeing with his behavior in any way, i think his name calling and general behavior would have gotten him banned on pretty much every site. Actually Axel has been quite generous to even let the guy rant and rave like a lunatic for this long without banning him. However Zepir was the only one arguing one side while the rest of you argue the other. Makes for a short argument if the only one on the other side is gone. I already know it is useless to argue against Euro's about weapons of any kind in the hands of citizens. They don't even understand that right because they have not had it for 1000's of years. When you are used to being ruled by kings and dictators and people of that nature and it is bred into you for generations you don't even get the opportunity to feel what it is like to live as a free man. Thats why the USA started in the first place. The British sent all the people who didnt fit in over here and then after a couple hundred years we decided enough of this shit we are going to be our own country. Obviously a lot more shit has happened since then but the bottom line is the people in the USA want to have liberty and that is important. The only way to ensure liberty is to have the population armed. There is no other way in the end. All would-be dictators would fail if the population was armed to the teeth. I think the reason that people don't understand this is because they do not study history and the lessons that it teaches. Anyway I am not in the business of convincing liberals and europeans of how great we have it in the USA. I would rather you not even know and you think this is a shitty place so you don't come here and try to change it into your world. Have a nice day and Happy Thanksgiving! And yes this is the holiday we practice to celebrate the friendliness of the Native Americans that helped our people to live through their first year in the USA. Many years after that we slaughtered them for not having rifles. If they all had rifles and lots of ammo then they probably would be running things.

2017/11/23 05:35, Vra:   
Am I to understand that you believe that if the US government and all its military force were under a dictators power, you think civilians with guns would win? I would say when the 2nd amendment was written it would have worked fine, the government and civilians would have been on a level playing field, but as it is now that just sound like some old rhetoric people spout off. To quote Obama “I have two words for you, predator drone”. If your government and military goes dictator style I don’t think a civilian revolt would work.

I don’t see the problem with putting a few more guidelines as to what kind of guns you can purchase. I don’t think you should ban guns, but making sure gun buyers have taken a course on gun handling wouldn’t hurt. Everyone has the right to drive a car, but you have to do a few tests first. Why is it so offensive to do the same for guns?

2017/11/23 10:51, Fieldy: 
Grimble. Are you and Zepir married?

'I already know it is useless to argue against Euro's about weapons of any kind in the hands of citizens.'
- We have weapons in the hands of citizens. Not your assault rifles, but enough what we want.

'They don't even understand that right because they have not had it for 1000's of years.'
- See previous.

'When you are used to being ruled by kings and dictators and people of that nature and it is bred into you for generations you don't even get the opportunity to feel what it is like to live as a free man.'
- I am sure I have more freedom than you. I do whatever I want.

'Obviously a lot more shit has happened since then but the bottom line is the people in the USA want to have liberty and that is important.'
- Its human instinct to want liberty... Everyone wants that. Except some fetishes. In USA if you break out of a prison you get more jail time, right? How is that for liberty? I can't remember whether it was Germany and/or Denmark, but prisoners who escape prison there cannot be charged with additional jail time.
You guys have liberty? Pfff. In my honest opinion it is just a cover to use you like sheep. Give an idiot a rifle and he feels invincible!

'Anyway I am not in the business of convincing liberals and europeans of how great we have it in the USA.'
- I would not say that USA is bad. There is a lot bigger concentration of idiots (but hey, this is the way many of you have been raised) and the country is run in bad ethics, but overall I think the place is OK.

Overall, the literacy rate is a good example here again.

2017/11/23 13:04, Savu:   
I don't think guns fit into having control over your government at all. When would you get to the point of using your assault rifle against your own government?
When there's a military coup?
When Donnie gets impeached?
When net neutrality is dissolved?
When gas tax is raised?
When you get fired from work?

Different people would probably have a different tipping point. So what you really get is a violent mess that you have there. As long as you have a democracy you should vote for people who don't try to screw over a specific group and you would be fine. Voting for the Don was a good example of whom you should not vote for to keep things fine for everyone.

Also note Fieldy's answers, you really don't know anything about Europe.

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