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2018/03/27 19:06, Bardock:   
LOL Savu

2018/04/01 09:48, Bardock:   
[submitted link]

Elon Musk explains why Trumps tariffs make sense

2018/04/07 15:08, Roadkill:   
Elon Musk reveals he, like Trump, is interested in things which impact on himself and his own business interests, while not being particularly knowledgeable about macroeconomics.

An industrial magnate is to a macroeconomist making policy decisions in national interests what a particle physicist is to a biochemist. Excellence in one does not imply excellence in the other.

The US foreign trade deficit is up in February, and it doesn't make any difference. Trade deficits are usually uninteresting and unimportant.

[submitted link]

2018/04/08 02:45, Bardock:   
No offense but I hold Elon Musks opinion with a little more regard. He's kind of a genius, your probably a smart guy but your no Elon :)

2018/04/08 05:15, Roadkill:   
Agree 100% with your last post, and no offense taken. :-)

I wasn't asking you to take my word for it, though. The BBC points out that there is consensus among experts on the matter, in my last links from them.

2018/04/08 05:56, Bardock:   
have you considered the possibility that the US will actually come out on top of this situation?

also as Elon was saying, why is it fair for them to have 20x higher rates? I sort of think its justified to correct the deficit, I mean its only fair right?

I am just wondering, can you even consider the possibility that the US will be more prosperous from this?

I honestly think it could go either, I am surely not saying there will not be consequences.

2018/04/08 14:20, Roadkill:   
'fair' is not a concept which is applicable in capitalism. It's not fair that I have to pay five times more for a product or service than someone who lives 2 borders away on the same continent, but that is the reality of consumer buying power, and the dynamics between supply and demand.

I don't see anyone winning or benefiting from a trade war, and afaik it's never happened in history. Global trade will suffer, and as a result, so will global economy. When that happens, it's always ultimately the consumers and common taxpayers who foot the bill.

And even if there was, theoretically, a possibility for something positive to come out of this, the potential for bad (or even catastrophic) consequences is larger by far, and much more important.

2018/04/08 14:32, Bardock:   
To be perfectly honest, I am not sure how I feel about these trade wars or tariffs. I was glad to hear Elon Musks input and also interested to hear yours. I think there will surely be consequences but I also think it could fix some deficits we have, everything that Trump does is equated with doom and gloom and placed out of proportion in my opinion.

So as far as this goes, you could be right but I think Trump is absolutely right that were getting screwed and slaughtered in current trade deals and I couldn't be happier that NAFTA and others are being negotiated to be far more fair for everyone.

2018/04/08 15:35, Roadkill:   
True, the automatic response to Trump seems to be to assume the worst. But, to be honest, I think that comes from experience with regard to him.

There's a documentary on Netflix called 'Dirty money'. The 6th episode is about Trump. Not as a politician, but his actual background in business, as opposed to the media glamour image portrayed in the Apprentice. It's interesting, if nothing else.

This scares me, btw: [submitted link]

2018/04/08 16:36, Bardock:  edited 1x   
I am willing to watch it, I will let you know when I am done what I think.

lol a bible study group scares you?

2018/04/08 18:52, Roadkill:   

Religious extremism combined with secular power has, throughout history, not been a good thing at all. To put it mildly.

We should learn from past mistakes, not seek to re- or outdo them.

On the other hand, if that sort of thing goes on at the heart of power, then it can be no surprise that such fierce resistance is exerted against science.

I tend to agree with Brian Cox (see the link posted in the spam thread). Anti-intellectualism is hands down the biggest current threat to civilization.

2018/04/10 08:09, Bardock:   
Oh my God, if these war mongering neo conservative idiots convince Trump to strike Syria again after another obvious false flag, I am done! I will leave the Trump train!. Just like last time its an obvious false flag by the rebels or ISIS to get the US to fight Assad. Literally the day before Trump announced the US starting to out.

I cant stand these god damn wars, I hate the image the US is getting from these pointless middle eastern wars. Trump needs to hold up his promise to leave Syria and if he attacks Assad again over bullshit, I cant forgive that 2x.

2018/04/10 09:50, Roadkill:  edited 1x   
I agree that the wars are the most serious thing, with the worst consequences both long and short term, that's happening in international relations atm.

But where I live, Trump by far dwarfs the wars when it comes to having a detrimental effect on US image. And (state) media here is actually restrained, and factual.

Pause and think on that for a while.

Saw this morning that the government fiscal deficit will rise by over 4% in the next fiscal year, due to Trump's tax cuts. Remember way back in this thread when I talked about how Trumps policy sounded an awful lot like Reaganomics? This seems to support that observation.

Edit: Here is a link to the publication from the Congressional Budget Office which is being reported atm.

Quoting from the report:

'In CBOs projections, budget deficits continue increasing after 2018, rising from 4.2 percent of GDP this year to 5.1 percent in 2022 (adjusted to exclude the shifts in timing). That percentage has been exceeded in only five years since 1946; four of those years followed the deep 20072009 recession. Deficits remain at 5.1 percent between 2022 and 2025 before dipping at the end of the period, primarily because some tax provisions are scheduled to expire under current law, boosting revenues. Over the 20212028 period, projected deficits average 4.9 percent of GDP; the only time since World War II when the average deficit has been so large over so many years was after the 20072009 recession.'

[submitted link]

2018/04/10 11:57, Savu:   
The thing to remember about these alleged chemical weapon attacks is that the bigger countries probably have reasonably good intelligence on what really happened. So if there will be a retaliation to a false-flag attack then it's probably just a reason thrown to the public. Hell, even if it really happened, then the reason is most likely something else. Having tens of people die to a chemical weapon attack in a conflict that has killed hundreds of thousands is just a drop in the ocean anyway.

2018/04/11 11:00, Savu:   

[submitted link]

2018/04/11 16:00, Bardock:   
gg planet. humanity really wants to end apparently.

2018/04/11 18:04, Roadkill:   
This, of course, will have been one of the scenarios Russian intelligence saw as a possible outcome of meddling with things on SoMe. So we can assume this is one of the situations they felt could be good for the RusGov.


2018/04/12 03:27, Bardock:   
It was nice knowing you guys, if any of us survive the nuclear holocaust maybe we can start a radioactive mutation support group.

2018/04/12 04:59, Savu:   
Don't be so overdramatic, YOU in US mainland will be fine :D

2018/04/12 05:17, Bardock:  edited 1x   
if retard Trump strikes Syria jesus Christ, the chain reaction is going to destroy everyone. No one wins a nuclear war.

Savu, this is literally what's going to happen. Please watch its like 2 mins and you wont regret it.

[submitted link]

seriously tho Savu, Trump announces US will start to pull out of Syria, literally the next day a highly suspicious chemical attack (rebels and al-Qaeda known to use these attacks) its so fucking obvious, ISIS is being slaughtered, the war is going totally in Assads favor, war mongers and the deep state who want Assad out are totally pulling these strings, I thought Trump was fucking smarter then this, he talked in depth during the election about these stupid fucking pointless wars in the desert that we have NO GOD DAMN BUSINESS IN.

:( I seriously pray to God some sense comes into him, there will be no winners to this conflict if Trump falls for the bait from the neo-con war mongers. I fucking hate war and someone tell me how the fuck it would make America any safer or benefit us at all attacking a sovereign country over a unverified and researched attack.

it just makes no sense, Assad knows very well if he used chemical weapons its over for him, everything is going great for him. Why in the fuck would he do such a thing? does anyone actually believe Assad launched this attack? Holy shit.

2018/04/12 09:29, Savu:   
Like I said earlier, you can assume that he probably knows who did the chemical attack so your assessment on his actions should be based on that. Meaning that it's just a reason that he public will accept (whether it's true or not), but it certainly is not the real cause of the actions.

I don't think this will cause a nuclear war tho.

2018/04/12 11:55, Prist: 
Zepir, you like conspiracy theories, why you don't see that this attack makes perfect sense?

Well, here's a conspiracy theory for you that you won't believe!

This whole thing is part of Russian campaign to discredit West and especially the US. Currently there is no situation where the US will end up as a winner, so this plays perfectly according to Russia's political ambitions. Take a look.

Trump announces that he is withdrawing from Syria. No one actually wants that, especially Russia. Russia wants Syria to be in chaos as every day this rotting wound is open it causes issues to West and benefits to Russia - refugees crowding Europe, West losing it's authority while Russia shows that they control policy in Middle East instead of the US, fertile ground for terrorists to grow to be headache especially in Europe, great platform to test newest Russian weapons and sell them (Russia just announced that they have achieved new record with weapons exports). So Russia greenlights Assad's chemical attack, knowing that West has to respond. However, West is scattered, due to Trump's rhetoric and Brexit and UN security council is nonfunctional so it is difficult to agree on joint action. Russia has carefully also built up relations with Turkey, the most important NATO ally in region who will oppose US in Syria. Now different scenarios can happen:

1) Trump decides to bomb some airfields again, Russia intercepts missiles and demonstrates capability of their air defence. They will make billions in sales to future dictators. US will not start bombing Russian ships of course. US will be humiliated as bombed buildings are rebuilt. Russia will claim unlawful attack on their ally and retaliate somewhere, most likely Ukraine, as they have in recent weeks massed up to 77 000 men on Ukrainian border. Russia and Iran will keep Assad in power, war ends one day and Russia and Iran will rule supreme in Middle East. US pockets defeat.

2) Trump decides to bomb airfields, Russia fails to intercept missiles. Russia claims unlawful attack on their ally and they retaliate in Ukraine or somewhere. As missile attacks will change nothing, slowly Russia and Iran will keep Assad in power, war ends one day and Russia and Iran will rule supreme in Middle East. US is humiliated for failing to stop massacre and provide adequate response to chemical attack. Russia and Iran will keep Assad in power, war ends one day and Russia and Iran will rule supreme in Middle East. US pockets defeat.

3) Trump decides to invade and gets stuck in another Middle East war. Don't worry, not a single Russian soldier will die, only 'mercenaries', over which Russia has 'no control'. War will get bogged down, people die, no one wants aanother war so as soon as possible, troops are pulled out again. Wound keeps festering until Russia and Iran install Assad again in power and then rule supreme in Middle East while the US pockets yet another defeat.

4) Trump, after much bluster, goes the way of Obama and does nothing, losing face and what shreds are left of the US reputation in Middle East. Russia and Iran will rule supreme in Middle East. US pockets defeat.

The whole issue is designed to humiliate the US, which simply does not have any good options what to do. The goal behind it is to reduce US power in the world in accordance with Russian geopolitical goals. To achieve that they need to shatter NATO, drive wedge between Western allies, reduce US cultural and economic influence. Having installed Trump in the White House they've seen success in every objective as alliances are weakening, Trump is pursuing trade war with China, getting humiliated in the Middle East and so on. This chemical attack by Assad is just another piece of puzzle designed to reduce American influence to rubble and force US inward, while Russia could divide and rule in places where US previously called the shots.

There you go, you're welcome.

2018/04/12 12:47, Savu:   
Totally plausible.

And, as with every conspiracy theory, you could write one that claims the opposite and make it just a plausible :D

2018/04/12 21:15, Bardock:   
So what your saying is were in a no win situation. So is Trump justified launching air strikes against Syria? Is this what Europe wants? I don't see any other option but nuclear war and no one wins that

2018/04/12 21:57, Prist: 
Fuck if I know if Trump is justified or not. I only know that we've been outmaneuvered heavily and there is no good option left for either the West or Syria. So I'd guess eventually it boils down to some face-saving half-assed solution that allows the West to pretend that we've done something to react to gas attack while in reality we've lost the fight long time ago. We're just too afraid as we've had too many bad experiences.

And don't worry, it won't escalate into nuclear war. Targets will be carefully chosen so they would not hit Russians. If they still do, it'll be claimed by Russia that they were mercenaries with no official connection to Russian military. Tens of Russians have already been killed in this fight with no nuclear war happening. No one, especially in Russia, would start a nuclear war over few dead soldiers. Soldiers in Russia have always been expendable unlike in Western countries. Russia and Iran want to humiliate the US and gain influence over the region, not start throwing around nuclear bombs despite rhetoric.

2018/04/12 22:33, Bardock:   
Well Prist, I actually appreciate your analysis and input. I have been trying to piece this all together and understand it but its very complex. None of the perspectives I have heard yet from others involved Russia maybe wanting the US to strike Syria. Its really coming down to the wire right now, so many lives are at stake here. I strongly feel it could very well be the rebels doing these attacks because they know the US will strike their enemy Assad and perhaps gain some ground from such chaos. Any how, do you have any other kind of ideas to the current situation? I just want my troops home and out of the middle east for good. We do not belong there. I say let Russia and Assad deal with it.

2018/04/12 23:40, Prist: 
Yes, Syria is geopolitically one of the most complex situations ever I'd guess.

The thing is, leaving isn't good option either. You say that you don't belong there - but where do you belong? Where do you draw the line, if you do not assist a country whose people are being gassed by their leaders and their allies? If you don't help them, would you help someone else? If you do nothing in country where people are gassed like in Syria, would you do anything in a country that is not gassed but is invaded, like in Ukraine? Where do you draw the line between intervening and not intervening?

What seems to me is that what is going on is salami tactics. You may have heard about it - essentially it's conquering something piece by piece so that defender don't even realize that they are under attack. This attack however is against Western values and order built after Cold War. Piece by piece Western values and our influence in the world is being eroded, one country and region at a time. One day we'll wake up and wonder how did we end up insignificant while others dictate how world is moving. You can see it is moving that way (and no, I do not mean that we're under attack by muslims, I'm talking about nation states playing on geopolitical arena).

And the thing is, it's easy to say let's retreat, but what it also means is that you'd be betraying your values, saying you don't care and with that you give up your influence, both regionally and globally. If you do not have influence then you are not making decicions and then decisions are made by those, who may not share your values.

2018/04/13 04:21, Bardock:  edited 1x   
Man this is so painful waiting to see what happens, this is reminding me of how WW1 kicked off with Ferdinand.

I seriously hate this, why cant we live in a rational world.

Prist, I would love your opinion on this article.

[submitted link]

2018/04/13 06:41, Savu:  edited 1x   
I can't figure out what Wests game is here. Why would US draw a red line at an arbitrary point like chemical attack? Why would France? It's not a humanitarian reason because encircling towns and causing lack of food/water, shelling civilians etc, goes largely unresponded (at least no one is threatening military action).

Another thing is that US and France seem to WANT to do something in Syria to some end, because otherwise they could have easily said that the chemical attack claims are not credible and do nothing.

Is it just to keep Iran and Russia preoccupied in a place that doesn't really matter?

2018/04/13 11:46, Ortansia:   
I don't believe this chemical attacks in Syria, for me it is just another lie to justify western intervention, just like what happened in Irak with the Weapons of mass destruction excuse.
For me what's happening in Syria is just another proxy war between West and Russia, Sunni and Shiaa, it is too complex that you can't even take any sides of the conflict, because they are both bad, the only victims are civilians who are stuck in the middle of the conflicts, and suffer everyday :(

2018/04/13 22:42, Tpp:   
Rofl Bardock making fun of construction workers. Weren't you a network guy? You set up networks, perform maintenance, troubleshoot etc? No offense but what you do can be learned by anyone in 3-6 months. Ok sure- you need years of experience to become really good at it like in any other field but you're not really 'creating' anything. You're literally connecting wires. Nothing wrong with that, you're just not the genius you might imagine to be lol.

2018/04/14 02:37, Bardock:  edited 2x   
not sure what your talking about, construction is a highly respectable job, my father worked construction and was very successful. Not sure what you are going on about, were discussing the ramifications of a US strike on Syria and the potential of World War 3. I am just a tech slave, I fully agree. Nothing special about what I do, it simply pays the bills. Thanks tho.

@Ortansia, I actually agree with you. Well Trump just did it folks. Will this kick off WW3? We are hours away from finding out I suppose. Good luck everyone.

2018/04/14 05:09, Savu:   
Seems like a face-saving effort.

'An official told Reuters news agency: 'We had an early warning of the strike from the Russians... and all military bases were evacuated a few days ago.''

2018/04/14 05:25, Bardock:   
are you agreeing with Prist that this is what Russia wants?

2018/04/14 05:58, Savu:  edited 1x   
I said it's plausible. So are many other scenarios. What's missing there is Wests motivation to act on a chemical attack claim, they could have just shrugged it off. As long as there is no reliable information every theory fits.

Yesterday I was pondering that we should look which one of the participants makes a move elsewhere soon (as Syria could just be a distraction to the others), but seriously, no one has committed enough forces there for even that to be relevant.

A small attack like this is hardly cause for Russia to escalate either so it's likely that nothing happens. Basically all we know is that a few sites were hit with apparently no casualties so what's the appropriate response to that? A few harsh words in UN and the media?

I don't know, it makes no sense :)

2018/04/14 06:21, Bardock:   
Yea I didnt vote for this. I voted to get out of foreign wars. Looks like I was duped. I expect Russia to retaliate, if they do not then Putin looks weak after promising he would.

2018/04/14 07:19, Razoor: 
Good insights Prist, I think its a plausible assessment. I also think it suited Trump quite well because he needs to distract the public from the Russia investigation, the raid on his lawyers office and his expected move to fire Rosenstein/ this may give him some cover and even some support from war-hungry people.

A sad day all in all...hugely disappointed also by NATO, UK and France that they condone/ wasnt even proven yet that chemical weapons were used afaik? And now they cant go on the ground and investigate because bombs?

2018/04/14 07:22, Roadkill:   
Gas, oil, export routes, ocean access and domestic control. These are key words to understand Russia's interests, I think.

I admit I'm stumped as to what the allies are hoping to achieve. Maybe a show of intent to try to stop Russia?

Now what _would_ make things interesting (sarcasm) would be a Syrian sub approaching the American coast, and sending a few Tomahawks into some US bases.

2018/04/14 07:26, Roadkill:  edited 1x   
Yeah, doubleposts ftw

2018/04/14 13:23, Ortansia:  edited 1x   
@Bardock it seems inevitable that a nuclear war will take place ,and that it will occur sooner rather than later, It is very possible with an Impulsive president like yours,
the nuclear war between USA and Russia and their allies, will only benefit Israel (Zionists) to come up as the world leader. Once USA and Russia will destroy each others, Israel will then emerge from the nuclear holocaust to succeed USA as the world leader.

There is a rabbinic prophecy about an incoming Big war at the end of time, that will Benefit Israel, and it is described as big roosters fighting each others, and the small rooster (Israel) hiding scared under rubble, once the fight ends, and all big roosters killed each others, the small rooster emerge triumphally walking on the big roosters' dead bodies, acting like the winner of the battle. I cannot quote much but I'm sure you will find about it, if you make a research about this rabbinic story.

2018/04/14 14:29, Razoor: 
Israel? I think its far more likely to be China, not Israel, that benefits from this mess..

2018/04/14 17:49, Bardock:  edited 1x   
Trump is just another neo-con war mongering pile of shit, hope he gets impeached. Look at this shit, theres no fucking proof Assad did this, any fucking retard can see the war Is going amazing for him and the last thing he is going to do is incite the US. Its clear it was western back rebels. Its even being reported the UK is directly involved. Now what the fuck do you think ISIS is going to do and other factions hearing the US will strike Assad if more chemical attacks occur? They are literally opening the gates for more of these attacks to happen so Assad will again be attacked. I am sick and tired of my country being involved in these piece of shit wars, we have the blood of so many dead arabs on our hands. The US was once a respected land, now its nothing but a giant terrorist organization. Fuck the US and fuck Trump. We need to get people in office like Jill Stein and Ron Paul, I'm sick of these piles of shit pretending to care about the people and shitting all over them.

2018/04/15 09:36, Razoor: 
Now we on the same page :D Zepir and Razoor friendship!!

2018/04/15 12:36, Savu:   
Get gay ingame and make a log <3

2018/04/15 17:34, Bardock:   
its just back to the same old shitty feeling from before, I never got involved in elections before this one because its always just two sides to the same coin, two people owned by the same entities. Obama lied to everyone as well, said he would do all kinds of things, end the war and close Guantanamo. It literally does not matter who the fucking puppet is, the deep state and the military industrial complex will not be affected. President after president they promise things and just continue the regime befores plan which is just the plan of the American war machine and conquest and conquering. I am just sick of it. What the fuck can we do as citizens anymore? The balance of power pretty much has just shifted so far against the people. The USA is not what it once was.

I trust you guys have all seen, Team America World Police? Holy cow is that not the truth.

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