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Fixing Thieves/Scouts catchup  discussions

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2021/03/09 08:09, Elestir:   
@Fieldy Pretty much everyone is unkillable if played carefully enough. Point is to increase group fight potential of scouts, so they don't have to resort to backstab only and can actually engage enemies in melee combat (without having to combo as warrior and switch weapons).

2021/03/09 10:06, Fieldy:   
@Elestir
Okay, true, everyone is unkillable if played carefully enough. Scouts just have it very easy imho. But I understand the concern of the use of scouts in groupfights, but I have tested and tried different styles for using scouts in groupfights and it has been rather successful. Just need to take a bigger risk to be honest. And no, those scouts are not combos.

2021/03/17 17:22, Seade: 
Thieves were fixed long time ago... they just don't use the word 'neutered' for it.

2021/03/31 10:47, Spiffy: 
@Fieldy: I disagree on the superior survivability of the scout. It only applies if you are close enough to a safe zone. The further you go from safe zones, the more you are exposed to the mps problem. You are also heavily punished by bad decisions or inexplicable skill fails, like sneaking past that troll pack and loosing half your hps in 1 failed flee/escape. Furthermore, all your offensive weapons are double edged swords, and failing usually costs way more then the damage you inflict if succeeding (i.e.: failed envenom will nearly always poison you with a highly potent version of that poison, while its very hard to land the poison on your enemy, failed escape costs you a big chunk of your health, or can get you killed, bad defense in 'nuke mode' paired with no absorb, additional damage when getting hit from sneak, and so on)

I would also go as far as to say that everything a pure scout can do in a group fight, another class can do better (including some of the thief class skills!). You might land an occasional stab every now and then on a lagging/unsuspecting victim, or manage to put a couple of arrows in someone's tushie while bashed, but besides that, you are quite useless...you cant soak damage for your groupies, you cant bash, you cant protect, you cant nuke as well as a caster (+dont have any of their utility), and you cant hit for poop against anything with absorb..you are dead weight for that group in most scenarios..Sure, you can put the scout in the right hands and it will still perform, but put some other class in the same hands, and it will increase that person's efficiency tenfold.

2021/03/31 10:53, Belamir: 
Has anyone experimented much with a shooting scout, under protect from a warrior, in a group fight? I know loaded crossbows, especially, are quick - like staffed quickbolt quick. I'd imagine you could get more than a couple arrows off if you have someone stopping you from getting hit..

2021/03/31 11:56, Ytinas: 
Can no longer carry around 8 loaded crossbows anymore, I think. Yeah, you could at one point fire 8 in a single bash, enough to take a scout down to low bad with max chanted bolts :P

Scout can do sizable sustained nuke damage though, if group is willing to wait 2 seconds for arrow recovery before spamming on to regen mana at next mob. And some extra shadows

2021/04/06 07:34, Spiffy: 
@Belamir: That is not a bad idea, if you can get a designated warrior for your scout..the protects usually go on the more critical group members. Think its common practice on zorcs. Ideally, you would still want to sneak/shoot for maximum applied damage.
Thankfully, as Ytinas mentioned, they fixed the 8 loaded crossbow + bash abuse (that was usually done with a warrior btw), but made them kind off useless in the process (you unload it once, then the xbow is most likely useless for that engagement). The weight on those things is horrendous. With each projectile weighting as much as a small child, its a weapon better suited for a high strength char, like a warrior. I wont even go into how much trouble it is to restock on projectiles and get them chanted, just so you run out of them in a few encounters where you fail to kill your target.

2021/04/06 07:48, One:   
They kept messing with xbows. Now you canít stay hidden to load it. Which makes no sense because you can stay hidden to shot it, which requires you to load it first. I think an xbow worn on you shoulder should be able to stay loaded. So you can load and then draw, but if it goes into inventory you unload the bolt. I have had success using xbow to deliver poison in pk. But I find it to heavy and slow for most pk situations. Itís great for solo smob.

2021/04/06 17:07, Emerka: 
'Itís great for solo smob.'

You have any more of that solo-smob-as-thief strategy?

2021/04/07 12:20, Drulgo: 
blinding M (there's no 'M' in 'blindness') scrolls and eyes for ravenous troll (sqt-looting), claw to make more eyes and Muranog.
i think tons of purple scrolls for meza but i sneak-scouted it and ppls helped me to get bm-cit
do not / can try to superspam in dragon and try stab it asleep? well on reentering i saw him sleeping

2021/04/07 16:52, One:   
You can solo smobs that donít chase or lock doors on you. I would do a lot of Lord, gnarled DB quest and fell hide beast with an xbow. With some arachnia you would be able to a lot more. Does anyone know if troll mobs like mura and sqt are immune to poison?
I have tried to stab dragon a few time, landed it once, but then heís awake toll zone pop. I also mobbed myself once.

2021/04/09 08:57, IminyŽ:edited 1x   
grey spider venom/arachnia bites mountain troll charmie
another question is if can really venom dragon?

2021/04/10 23:02, Belamir: 
Uh, are you planning to charm a grey spider and take it to Mithnaur, or charm Mithnaur and take it to a grey spider?

2021/07/02 19:26, Vra:   
Change sneak quickly/normal/thoroughly
Gives different delay, move cost, sneak success

2021/07/04 17:03, Reich: 
How about a way to 'test' sneak? You can test your archery skills at some ranger guilds. I think a way to test sneak where mobs are able to say 'i see you!'. This way you can see how effective your skill is with weight, light, room type... Right now it's a complete mystery with what works and what doesn't.

2021/07/04 23:30, Vurv:   
Having a scout friend who is just as curious as you helps in this matter. With both of you and with/without mounts you can test all sorts of sneak abilities in different terrain/weather. Part of the fun of playing MUME is figuring stuff out.

2021/07/07 16:27, Nude: 
Love how players became harder to stab in the last week or so but management forgot to mention they messed with that, as usual.

2021/07/07 22:51, Akhas: 
I don't know why I play this character anymore. People sense every stab, or that's if even I can successfully sneak anymore.

Someone sent me a log, and they saw me in every single room despite sneak.

2021/07/08 05:13, Vra:   
I find sneak is unreliable, hence my suggestion.
Sneak quickly:
80% move malus(delay&mv cost) 80% effective sneak - I would use this for track while sneaking

Sneak normal: sneak as it is now

Sneak thoroughly:
120% move malus, 120% effective sneak - for hard to stab mobs, running past groups

I wouldnít change backstab or anything else. I find most failed stabs are actually failed sneaks where you are seen before the stab attempt goes thru.


2021/07/08 07:44, Nude: 
If anyone argues that sneak/stab is ok, i would advice them to think what would happen if every mob had lord ability to absorb your spells, and you had to flee/fball 30 times on a random pack horse to actually nuke it once, or if that grey wolf decided to dodge 30 bashes in a row from a high lvl legend warrior, or even worse, if those skills of yours would fail you like this when fighting another player.

As i explained many times, sneak/stab combo is the only skill that is impossible to land if the enemy so wishes (reveal). It is a skill mainly designed to kill afk people, lowbies who just dont care about dying to stab and diarheea infested players that need to fast afk but its biggest flaw comes from its low damage output. The scenario where you stab someone to bad-awful just so they run to the end of the world after happens way to often, or even worse, when you stab some random combo to fine because armor spell. IF you are making stab a damage skill, then make it do damage...not just chip away at the enemy's hps, make it bypass armor, make it bypass sanc, make it do what its supposed to do and raise the 275 cap, its way to low as is...

or even better, make it more of an utility tool, something the thief can use to hinder his enemy escape, and on this topic, there are quite a few good idea in this thread.

2021/10/04 18:33, Naut: 
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