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2017/08/21 22:15, Algroth: 
Agreed on point 1. She destroys most of Jaimes army and fries the Tarlys, so i'm not sure what she's waiting for.

I'm waiting to see if the new undead dragon(white dragon? white walker dragon?) breathes fire or ice. If it's fire he's surely going to melt the wall, but if it's ice who knows!

I think Bran will still play a huge role, whether it's revealed that he drove King Aerys mad by warging into him or something.

Also, can we talk about this term, 'warging'? It offends my tolkienish senses, and I cannot find any other reference point from where this term would be based on.

2017/08/22 13:14, Andróg:   
About point 1. I've been thinking about that as well. What could have been the hypothetical alternative storyline scenario?

Have her take King's Landing by pretty much burning it down in process. Okay, but what then. There's no way to spin the storyline in any way (even if we rewrote season 6 somewhat) that would make any of the other big houses of Westeros like Lannisters any more. So it's not like there could be an opposition located anywhere else. Or have Jon Snow turn the North against Daenarys while the south supports her? That'd fit the 'lets screw over the Starks as much as possible' prevalent storyline of the earlier seasons, of course. :P

Personally I would have preferred a storyline where we indeed see Westeros completely collapse through endless infighting and then just finish the season with a big 'and the Wall goes down, babang! 'Hello, I'm the Night King!'' surprise, so we got a civilization busy destroying itself and the Night King walking straight into that mess. And then somehow pull off an ending in s8 where Bran & Sam somehow figure out how to beat the Night King after everybody else loses badly to his armies. :)

That'd a bit too 'good vs evil, heros vs bad guys' finale, yeah. But as it is right now we will end up with something like that anyway, since the Night King does not exactly offer much nuance. He's very straight forward evil.

2017/08/22 15:22, Grimble:   
It would be cool if the army of the dead ends up crushing everyone and the last thing we see is the Night King sitting on the Iron Throne and it turns to ice. Daenerys could be sitting by his side as the undead queen. (She would have to be killed and raised up of course). Good guys win all the time they need to do something different with GOT. 'Good guys' is a loose term in GOT though anyway.

2017/08/23 18:51, Savu:   
I think the night king is just misunderstood. I bet he is lovely on the inside.

2017/08/24 15:30, Andróg:   
According to one possible theory he is actually Bran (long story how), so he might be. :P

2017/08/24 15:46, Benedictus:   
That would actually make so much sense.. not in the story but how the show has been past 7 years. GRRM has always gone on and on about how truly evil characters are boring and predictable like Sauron in Tolkien. Would make sense that Night King is something more than mindless killing machine with a surprising gift for javelin throw.

[submitted link]

2017/08/24 17:08, Rashnak: 
I look forward to Night King going south of the wall and reviving some main character that was killed off in any previous season without properly burning the corpse. Who'd that be?

2017/08/25 11:03, Algroth: 
Good question Rashnak! They've done a good job of mutilating a lot of the more high profile characters (Boltons, Starks). Some off the top of my head who weren't beheaded, turned into dogfood, or chopped up beyond recognition: Robert Baratheon, Renly Baratheon, Jorah Mormont.. hmm probably some others.. I'll cry if Hodor is seen resurrected, he last seen HOLDING THE DOOR. I'm sure several of the giants have been turned. Also, Thoros could be another option, he just froze and AFAIK they left him there.

2017/08/25 20:10, Britney: 
They did burn his corpse =)

2017/08/26 09:59, Strori:edited 4x   
Redhead stark milf that Bronn (not Faine's zaugurz) strongly advised Tyrion (the dwarf, not bn) to fuck after Tyrion's first kill (bashing with shield to death, no weapon).

2017/08/27 08:27, Algroth: 
Yes yes of course there is the disparity between the books and the show in regards to 'Lady Stoneheart', which was Catelyn Stark who was brought back to life in the books by Thoros(?). There is of course outrage that this storyline was not pursued in the show, but personally I don't think it would have enhanced any current storylines. Who knows, maybe they will completely bastardize the books (wouldn't be the first time) and introduce her story line in with the white walkers raising people from the dead.

2017/08/27 20:25, Strori:edited 3x   
by Derek who thus ended his life in book. well, there is a Russian guy who claims to leak script up to s8e4 so far, nothing about revived Catelyn, instead season 8 can uncloak who the night king really is.

2017/08/28 21:50, Andróg:   
In the end the whole thing makes me feel that having 10 episodes instead of 7 to tell this whole thing in detail would have been way better.

But the way the Arya-Sansa-Littlefinger storyline was told was ridiculous anyway.

BIG SPOILER AHEAD FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NOT WATCHED IT YET.

























Okay, I think we're safe now?

Having Littlefinger executed like that felt really anticlimatic. I was really hoping for the scenario where Littlefinger ends up on the Iron Throne in at some point eventually, only to have Daenarys try to conquer him from one side and the Night King from another. ;)

2017/08/28 21:59, Strori:edited 1x   
you have forgotten to mention Bran-who-sees-everything, so you are lying as usually.

However, it is funny that in the books there are Euron-one-eyed-raven and Brandon-three-eyed-raven.

2017/08/29 10:39, Andróg:   
I'm lying? Whut?

2017/08/29 15:44, Strori:edited 1x   
1.A: I'm lying? - S: yep. 2.A: Whut? - S: Arya-Sansa-Littlefinger storyline is Bran-Arya-Sansa-Littlefinger storyline.

Interesting point is that Sansa didn't execute Littlefinger herself in Stark way

2017/08/29 19:50, Andróg:   
Well, I was trying to keep it short and since Bran's part largely took place offscreen I omitted him. That's not lying.

2017/08/29 21:35, Benedictus:   
Btw there's a pretty common theory that Bran is the Night King. The Night King has to have a 'good' side because all GRRM characters are like that.

I don't think Littlefinger in the books is as stupid as to try to make 2 sisters murder each other. He used to be extremely pragmatic. Basically a nobody by blood who managed to get to be a small kind of a small kingdom. He's extremely cautious, moving in tiny steps.. Also as he said he kinda knew what the faceless men were capable of and he must have heard rumors that Bran could see the past including his past. I can't see any reason why he would even want to stay in Winterfell, just wasn't safe. Ok he was obsessed with Sansa, sure, but does it mean all logic goes out the window in the story line then from one of the smartest characters?

Also it still triggers me that Daenerys didn't just take King's Landing and the Iron fleet with even just 2 dragons, there's really no reason why she would not want to do that. 'ruler of ashes' and 'we need change' are not reasons enough. Basically her personality did a 180 turnaround after she sailed the sea. All her life until reaching Westeros was with a single aim - conquer 7 kingdoms. Now that it's extremely easy to do it, she just doesn't.

And don't even get me started of the logic of sending most important leaders on a solo mission against the whole enemy army.. what were the writers thinking. I get it- they wanted to kill a dragon, weaken Daenerys's position and give it to Night King but I'm sure there could have been a better premise.

2017/08/30 08:07, Savu:   
Everyone loves rankings! :)

[submitted link]

2017/08/30 10:59, Andróg:   
I was about to link that exact article!

And yeah, I pretty much agree with everything Benedictus writes. Even if the answer is 'Littlefinger became too obsessed with Sansa', then at least make that visible in the show on the screen for the viewers. Right now it does basically seem as if Littlefinger went from cunning asshole to just plain stupid overnight between S6 and S7.

And that article actually covers the strategical alternatives Daenarys had very well:
'Early on, she pledged to be a benevolent conqueror, not to burn King’s Landing to the ground or occupy cities with foreign troops. This led her to keep her dragons at home entirely, rather than think more creatively about using them. Why not burn the Red Keep and kill Cersei — but leave the civilian centers of King’s Landing alone? Why not send the dragons to burn Euron’s navy? Why not use the Dothraki cavalry to harry Cersei’s military, staying out of sight of King’s Landing but ambushing any Lannister forces that dared leave the capital?'
I find this discussion really spot on. Of course, all of that would have been hard to fit into 7 episodes. More likely 2 seasons or so, so maybe that's the reason. I really do hope (for the sake of the readers, I haven't read any of the books) that in the books GRRM comes up with something better than this.

Lastly, given how bad Tyrion's advice was this whole season I'm almost starting to believe that he's playing a double game and not really giving Daenarys the best advice. He does not of course support Cersei, but he does not exactly help Daenarys either.

2017/08/30 20:07, Strori:edited 2x   
Bran: another theory about Bran is that he looped more than once and built the wall (ancient Brandon 'the Builder' Stark) to protect humanity from himself (NK), thus looping the entire house of Stark lol.

Balish: In the books Littlefinger is lord of Riverlands at least formally, lord-protector of Vale and controls Sansa-in-hiding who is considered to be heir of the North. I'd expect him finally be killed by the Stoneheart and what-is-left-from-Brotherhood

2017/08/30 21:50, Crichton:   
Did the night king know that Daenarys is around with dragons? I got the feeling that he was waiting for her + dragons to show up, and that's why he didn't just kill Jon and co right away. I don't see how a guy who can control cold weather and ice couldn't just freeze a small lake.

2017/08/30 22:59, Andróg:   
There have been hints in the show that the Night King can warg, so he could have potentially known about Daenarys and the dragons, yes.

That being said, yes, the whole timeline of that episodes is nonsense. Lets say it took a day or so for Gendry to reach the wall. But even so those birds would spend at least a week if not two to fly to Dragonstone. And even for dragons that distance is at least another 3-4 days. But in the show they certainly did not make it appear as if they waited for two weeks on that lake island!

2017/08/31 14:38, Barret:   
@Benedictus

I don't think it was out of character or stupid for Littlefinger to linger in Winterfell or try to turn Sansa against Arya. Remember, littlefinger spent a lot of time in King's Landing while playing Robert, Cersei, and others who could kill him on a whim.

It was important for him to see that Sansa become the head of house Stark. Because, through her, he would gain control of the North. He already had the Vale and what was left of the Riverlands.

And he has a record of playing family members against one another. He got Lysa Aryn to send the fake letter to Winterfell that started the whole conflict and destroyed Lysa's house.

His mistake was thinking that Sansa would be as weak willed as her aunt. And it was an easy mistake to make considering how helpless and feeble she was or seemed to be during pretty much all the time she had been on camera outside of Winterfell.

2017/09/01 04:05, Algroth: 
Well.. Baelish was Master of Coin in Kings Landing, and on the small council, so he had legit(??) reasons for sticking around there.

I don't *think* he had control of the Riverlands. That traditional title belonged to the Tullys, and it was taken by the Lannisters/Freys when they took Riverrun.. However! I believe Edmund Tully is still alive somewhere, so hopefully he turns up to take it back!

Agree 100% with Androg, this 'fast travel' version of Westeros is irritating. Gendry has some superhuman powers, rowing non stop for 4(?) seasons then runs from that lake to Eastwatch tower in under half a day. Not sure how was able to fast travel with enemies nearby.. :D

2017/09/04 14:57, Barret:   
Littlefinger is Lord Paramount of the Trident in the books. It was a reward given him by the Lannisters for essentially saving King's Landing during the Battle of the Blackwater. But I'll grant that he never actually 'controls' it. He doesn't go there with knights and men at arms and lay down the law. But all the river-lords who submit to the Iron Throne after the Young Wolf dies are technically vassals of Littlefinger.

I can't remember if that is ever even mentioned in the show, however. I think the show might have gone another way entirely.

2017/09/05 11:47, Andróg:   
I'm not sure if that is mentioned in the show, indeed.

In the show he is explicitly given Harrenhal and its surrounding lands, plus he also practically controls the Eyrie and Vale of Arryn. Or is the Trident and Harrenhal practically the same place in this context? They're very close to each other anyhow.

2017/09/05 14:16, Barret:   
Harrenhal is in the Riverlands. The Lord Paramount of the Trident is the ruler of the Riverlands. The river in question is the Trident. In the books Littlefinger is given Harrenhal and made Lord Paramount of the Trident. But in the show they might have left out the title.

2017/09/05 23:12, Andróg:   
Yeah, I think they did that. You got me a bit confused with the title there.

2017/09/06 17:46, Strori: 
In the show it is when High Council blesses Baylish to marry Lisa.

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